...

[castalia]

Well, with one episode they managed to both validate my pairing and kill one half of it. Bastards.

I knew the rumors that Carson would be "disappearing" at some point, but as Jewel Staite is only drafted for 14 episodes next season I had assumed it would be a temporary disappearance. I was in denial up until the point where they showed the flag-draped casket.

I'd ask why my shows always kill off my favorite characters, but that would be rhetorical.

I'm going to miss Carson and his interaction with Rodney, Elizabeth, Teyla, Ronon, and Radek. So many cute moments over the past few seasons. I'm going to miss the humor and the accent that reminds me of university friends.

One thing that did make me happy was the ending. Some emotional honesty from Rodney, a reassuring Carson who already knew those things but was glad to hear them anyway, and some not so subtle hints that we may be seeing Carson again in one form or another. I know an alternate universe Carson would be hitting the reset button, but I don't care. I don't want to lose my pairing, and Rodney doesn't need to lose his best friend. McGillion is still listed as being cast in future eps, so I assume we'll get him back in some form or another.

*reaches for another tissue*

A solid ep, though, except for the stupidity of the "explosive tumors" plot. WTF was Gero smoking when he came up with that one? The contrast b/w the memorial service, with Weir saying how much everyone loved him, and the rest of the ep, with everyone not wanting to spend downtime with him, made me sad, though.

Comments

[ophidiae.livejournal.com]

Oh, hon. I just finished watching it, and my first thought (well, okay, first thought after "holy shit!") was that you would be crushed. *hugs*

Everything I had read was that Carson would be phased out slowly, and that there would be room for occasional guest appearances, so I was really surprised when they just out-and-out killed him. So, either everything written about the timing of Paul McG's departure was a total red herring so that viewers would be genuinely shocked by Carson's death, or else they're banking on the fact that nobody in the Stargate universe ever stays completely dead. I mean, really, they're worse than the X-Files in that regard.

So, IMO, Carson is not completely dead, he's just mostly dead. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I, too, thought it was going to be a true disappearance as in captured or incapacitated for a period of time type of thing. McGillion is supposed to be in some upcoming eps like "Vengeance", so either that's a fake-out too or he'll be back in some way.

The ending made my slasher heart happy, but dude, not cool. I hate losing favorite characters. Nothing will ever hurt me like losing D'Argo at the end of the FS Mini, but damn if this isn't close.

[ophidiae.livejournal.com]

D'Argo's death broke me.

To be fair, I never saw any slash between Rodney and Carson. Otoh, I don't particularly see slash between John and Rodney, either. Which doesn't mean I don't think Sheppard is gay as a tree full of monkeys (because I totally do) but that's a whole 'nother issue.

I did, however, see Rodney and Carson as being genuinely close friends, probably an offshoot of the fact that Paul McG. and David H. are very close friends in Real Life. I know some people are baffled by Rodney's comment about Carson being the closest thing to a best friend he ever had. I wasn't, not in the slightest. No, they didn't get the screen time together that Rodney has with Sheppard, but when they did, you always had the sense that the two were close and genuinely cared about each other.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

God, me too. I've never cried at much of anything the way I did when that aired. *hugs*

I do agree about the close friendship, and I can't believe people are actually baffled by Rodney's confession. Paul and David's friendship reminds me so much of another Paul and David pair - Glaser and Soul from S&H - and I loved seeing that translate to their characters on screen.

[gritkitty.livejournal.com]

I can see Rodney and Carson as being genuinely close friends, but no, I didn't quite see the "best friend" concept. I posted about it below, just a few thoughts about it. We've all got our own way of encountering a text (or show), and it's all good.

Also, I really wanted to say how much I like your icon! Hee!

[icepixie]

The contrast b/w the memorial service, with Weir saying how much everyone loved him, and the rest of the ep, with everyone not wanting to spend downtime with him, made me sad, though.

Nobody wanted to hang out with Carson? And then he died?

That is so sad! :-(

Glad I stopped watching this show months ago.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

Well, Rodney bailed on him at the last minute then everyone else already had plans. But yeah, it was still sad.

[gritkitty.livejournal.com]

So, at long last I'm into the whole SGA thing (nestra dragged me in kicking and screaming, but then the endorphins kicked in and the pain just fell away . . . well, mostly: omg this show is so STUPID, but I digress), and I'm here, reading your post. You 'shipped Carson and McKay?? Huh!

I'm in the "don't really care for the guy" camp when it comes to Carson. I saw tons of potential, but man. The iffy ethics and the near-parody of a blended Scotty-and-McCoy-type character, as well as the inappropriate use of th character (more than once I've said, "Why is Carson there??") put me off.

What I liked about him was his almost prissy -- hm, no, I don't think that's the word, but it's close -- manners. He had many warm and amusing moments with his patients, check. I adored that he worried about his turtles, cheesy as that was. Oh, and when the others got cell phone calls and he was like, "I didn't bring my cell phone!", that was cute. So the gist of my rambling is that, much like the entire show, the character had potential, in my opinion, but he never quite made it there, and I'm not broken up that he's gone.

However, I completely empathize because many of my favorite characters have died. If the show had done better by him, and I sure wish they had, then I'd've wanted him to stick around. I would have cried when he died. I tell you, SGA had better not look at Zelenka, grrrrr!

I can't say that I saw much evidence for a strong McKay/Carson dynamic. It seemed to me that they were freindly, yes, which seemed to me to come about because they were peers of a sort, but had nothing to do with each other's departments. As for interactions with and chemistry, I see tons more with . . . just about everyone else. He spends a *lot* of time with John, plus the snappy back-and-forth all the time. He and Zelenka have a groove, something new for McKay, that he's got not only someone smart enough to give him a run for his money, but a fellow geek. I'd've put my money on either of them as being "best friends" with Rodney, not Carson.*



*I'm responding a bit to the comment thread as well as the initial post. ; )


Oh, hey! You're keeping the end of April free, still, I hope?!? My fingers are so crossed!

[emerald01.livejournal.com]

I'm in the "don't really care for the guy" camp when it comes to Carson.

*blink* How is that possible? :-O How do you feel he was used inappropriately? Just curious.

I never saw much between Carson and McKay either. Slashy or otherwise. *shrug*

[gritkitty.livejournal.com]

A huge thing is the whole turn-Wraith-into-human story arc. And I'll admit that it seemed most of them acted like ass-hats, plus the story (like most on SGA) sucks *and* blows. (Yes, SGA is a love/hate thing for me.)

I hate how he's been thrown in on missions when the plot requires a doctor-type -- but no other reason. But -- is he a doctor, or a geneticist? I forget, though he must have been a doctor . . .

Part of it is that I just don't like him. I feel neutral about him, so all the bad writing really sticks out, unlike most of the others, who I can like in spite of the crappy writing. I feel similar about Elizabeth, too, except I think she gets a far worse rap because women get treated very badly in this show.

I don't like how "comedic relief" looks on him.

Chatting about this with a freind helped remind me about the parts about Carson that I *do* like, too. I liked how he was so uncomfortable with having the gene and flying and stuff. How he didn't take (much) shit from Rodney. Stuff like that.

[emerald01.livejournal.com]

See? Carson is cute! Oh heck, Paul McGillion is just adorable. With or without the accent. As for a being a doctor, if that were all he did, he wouldn't be good enough for that expedition. He's a super-biologist and such. He and Rodney do have a funny sort of relationship. Him giving Rodney chick advice and all... I think it's cute. And I like how he doesn't like going through the gate and all... And he's just so sweet! He's the soul of the show. The conscience and the moral compass.

I like Zelenka too. :-D

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

And see, I don't see much evidence at all for the McKay/Sheppard dynamic. They're teammates, sure, and they care about each other, but I don't see much to tell me that they're friends. They don't hang out together (Shep didn't even list Rodney when he asked Ronon why he only hung out with Shep and Teyla).

But to me, and I know YMMV b/c the entirety of the fandom thinks the other way, Rodney and Carson have been paired as friends from the beginning. They talked about it in countless interviews, how Carson was probably Rodney's best friend but neither of them would admit it. They're on a first name basis when a lot of others aren't, they hang out, etc. The actors get on like a house on fire and to me that translates so easily to the screen - I see a spark there when they banter that I don't see with anyone else. And this is why I stay as far away from SGA fandom as possible these days, b/c everyone's all about the McShep and I pretty much can't stand Sheppard.

April's free insofar as I have no job yet. I need a job! Keep your fingers crossed for that, too.

[gritkitty.livejournal.com]

Well, John and Rodney did have that on-going game for a long time. And they were goofy as boys on the playground with that personal sheild device way back in the first season. Plus all that "dabbling" with whales.

As for actor relationships, I don't often read interviews or watch the extras on my DVDs. I like best seeing the show, the text, the canon, and I don't go looking for the other stuff; I'd prefer the source to stand on its own, and so I couldn't tell you who is buddies with who from the cast. Though I bet it can have an effect on-screen.

One roadblock for me to see a strong Rodney and Carson freindship is the lack of proof on screen. They just don't get much air time. I blame the writers for that, so when they want me to believe that Rodney can call Carson his best freind, I say they haven't earned it by deftly showing me for the past three years.

Lastly, I got dragged backwards through a hedge, kicking and screaming, into this fandom by nestra, and the hedge's name was John-and-Rodney-4EVA. So, yeah. Biased.

Got any fic recs to widen my horizons past John/Rodney?

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I must be the only one who didn't love The Game. I just found it unlikely, considering that such games take long hours to play and they've been running around with no down time due to constant threat since they arrived. But it's canon, so I deal with it. All the goofing off just looks like typical guy stuff to me, nothing indicative of a deep friendship.

I can't really argue chemistry b/w actors, b/c what I see may not be what you see and vice versa. But what little airtime Carson and Rodney get (and actors campaigned for as much as possible b/c they love working together), I did see a deep friendship. YMMV, but I think they did show us. At least as much as the Gateverse writers are capable of showing - I got used to them over the years of watching SG-1, and they're not always good at showing and not telling.

Sadly, I have no recs to speak of. Like you say, the big pull for much of the fandom was several big names who were already into the Sheppard/McKay, and you guys got all the good writers. I don't really go looking for fic anymore, mostly b/c SGA fandom just isn't very much fun for me. I'm biased too, so I just stay in my little corner and write my reviews and such, just to save my sanity ;)

[gritkitty.livejournal.com]

The Game was stupid. Almost all the episodes have some level or other of stupid in them (exploding tumors? wtf??), and I chalk up the stupidity of The Game's plot points to the usual poor writing.

lauraspeak said below: "I see a McKay/Shep dynamic, I think they have a rapport, but I did always wonder if they were friends. I thought maybe they are friends when together, in the team, or maybe it's just friends when they have to be - or just getting along when they have to get along."

That makes a lot of sense, and it clarifies much of the McKay/Sheppard chemistry and why so many writers love the pairing. Tension! Slash writers *love* it! I know I do. But they spark a lot, even -- especially -- when John's being a dick, when McKay is all Mr. McRanty-pants, when they're yelling at each other, when they get that sarcastic back-and-forth going. I'm holding that relationship up and comparing it to McKay's easier groove with Carson, and I can see the difference better. I can also see why most the writers go for McKay/Sheppard over McKay/Carson for the very same reasons. Carson is a freind, not a lover. Slash writers are, after all, romance writers, and what better fits the typical romance novel trope than sparking angry passion? "McShep" all the way. But now that I'm seeing another peice of the puzzle, oh, man, I could go for a great Rodney and Carson freindship fic; that'd be awesome.

You know, I've been re-watching bits and peices of SGA, and in light of this dicussion I'm seeing Carson in a new light. That -- is very cool.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I quite agree with much of what Laura said. She put it better than I did :)

As a slasher, sure, I love the tension. I just like there to be that base of friendship underneath, and maybe these days I'm just not as much for the "only friends b/c we ended up on the same team" dynamic. My favorite SGA fic to seek out is genfic, I think, as long as there's a good Rodney and Carson relationship.

I'm glad you're at least getting to like Carson a bit better. The whole thing with the multiple uses of characters is a Gateverse tradition, I'm afraid. They don't kid around when they give us "genius" characters - I'm sure they like to think Carson is a general practitioner, a surgeon, and a geneticist all rolled up into one. Much like Carter was a pilot, a physicist, a mechanic, an engineer, and a sometime computer programmer all at once. Sometimes they mesh the talents well and sometimes they don't.

[lauraspeak.livejournal.com]

I see a McKay/Shep dynamic, I think they have a rapport, but I did always wonder if they were friends. I thought maybe they are friends when together, in the team, or maybe it's just friends when they have to be - or just getting along when they have to get along.

I've actually always wondered if Rodney was friends with any of his team members. I think he amuses Ronon, in the way that Spike amused Illyria and she wanted to keep him as a pet. I think Teyla has some respect for McKay so she's learned to humor him. For a while, I'm not sure why, but something about the character of Teyla just annoyed me, but she's grown on me. Half of the time they just seem to treat McKay so high school-ish and it's just annoying. I'm just uncertain of the overall team dynamic.

Also, Rodney has other outlets; he has his science team and probably other people with whom he has to interact, while the rest of the flagship team seems kind of isolated with each other.

Anyway, even though I think McKay and Shep have a nice rapport, I don't know if they are friends and I think Rodney and Carson are definitely friends. Oh, Carson. I haven't really looked into it, but I've been wondering if Paul McG wanted to leave, or if it was something they just decided to have happen.

Actually, I've wondered this with Rainbow Sun, as well. I didn't look into that, either, but it just seemed kind of abrupt.

[lauraspeak.livejournal.com]

I've been backspacing a lot, so I apologize for anything I didn't catch. ^ I'm a bit sleepy.

[gritkitty.livejournal.com]

This is an excellent observation; thanks for the insight. I said something about it in the comment just above this one (http://castalianspring.livejournal.com/217618.html?view=2187282#t2187282) to castilianspring

[lauraspeak.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I was just kind of thinking out loud, but glad it could be of use. :)

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

From what Gateworld and savecarsonbeckett.com it was definitely a writers/producers decision. Paul most emphatically did not want to leave and was quite bummed about it when they told him.

[lauraspeak.livejournal.com]

:(

[emerald01.livejournal.com]

*cries* Okay, I won't get to see the ep for ages, but that totally sucks! I thought he was going to be a temporary disappearance thing. Maybe he'll be back in flashbacks or something. But an alternate Carson wouldn't be the same. I might have to dislike Gero now. :|

**HUGS**

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

Thanks, Em. *hugs*

[coppercowries.livejournal.com]

Buh?! Wow, now I have NO reason to ever watch the show again!

Man, that sucks. Carson and McKay were my favorite buddies (can't stand what I've seen of Sheppard, as you know), so yeah, that sucks.

except for the stupidity of the "explosive tumors" plot

LOL I'll have to use that one at work.

[castalianspring.livejournal.com]

I'll watch for David Hewlett, and for any future McGillion guest appearances. But I doubt I'll enjoy the show as much anymore, even though I do love Teyla and Ronon and Radek.